*Kaz, putting aside what clearly seems to be a personal grudge against the mayor, what is wrong with trying to keep property values high and thus real estate tax revenue up in order to offer high quality public education and fully supported emergency services? Might those be reasons for not allowing apartment complexes, trailer parks, and such instead of sheer racism and classism you're implying?*

Somebody needs to tell Dallas, L.A., Atlanta, Houston, New York and San Francisco that apartment buildings lower property values. It isn't only lower-income people who rent; in fact, I would guess that over the next 25 years Madison is going to hope for some density and might start more projects to house aging boomers and empty nesters.

*To say that Madison would not exist without Jackson seems to be offbase and myopic.*

Or... just a fact. Sure, Madison might *exist* but if it weren't for its proximity to Jackson, it would probably look a lot more like Terry or Hazelhurst or any number of towns in Mississippi that were founded along the railroad and falter as time wore on. The fact that its main industry is attracting and re-locating the wealth that had previously been centered in Jackson doesn't mean it has to always go on doing that, but it does help explain a lot.

Hey hotrod, just a housekeeping note -- what can we do to make your comments a little more legible? I don't know what system you're using or why it's coming up in a different font, but if we could get some paragraphs every so often that might help. :) Thanks!

*The Brookshires on Terry Road left because of constant thievery,taking a quality convenient store from our community.*

Just for the record, Brookshire's closed their Ridgeland, Flowood and Northeast Jackson stores at the same time they closed their Terry Road store, a move that seems more a strategic exit from Mississippi than anything having to do with a particular store.

That said, I see the other points regarding the decay in the city, although I wouldn't point to Bass Pro Shop or Sam's Club for your salvation -- those big boxes are just part of the problem as they take money out of local banking and take profits out of the state so that they're reinvested elsewhere. And they tend to get tax abatements to boot.

What we need are homegrown and locally owned retailers, restaurants, grocers and industries to put people to work and build wealth in Jackson. Political leadership can help with that, but private business interests and public educational efforts are what will takes us the furthest down that road.

*"Perhaps Ameriquest decided to support this foundation after ACORN bullied them (sic) into becoming part of the problem by forcing them (sic) to provide those no-look loans."*

Now *that's* pretty much the definition of hand-waving. Good show!

*I'm sure ProPublica is about to release its investigative report on all the funding that unions feed to the Democrats "nonprofits", right?*

@robbier -- Is the "I know YOU are... but what am I?" defense really the most effective argument against this story? :)
*At least the corporations pay taxes on profit. Coerced union dues are tax freeeeee money.*

You understand that the story was about the group seeking tax-free status, right?

And as for corporations and their taxes -- Ameriquest is the group's single biggest listed donor and it's now defunct, taking it's shareholders, stakeholders and profits along with it. (This is the company that created the no-look loan; talk about part of the problem.)

The hand-waving about unions might make you feel better, but the truth is that we pretty much know where the unions stand. (And I support full disclosure and the overturning of Citizens United.)

Why, on the other hand, would conservatives fight the suggestion that consumers and shareholders **deserve** to know where corporations are putting their political money?

Huzzah! Go bill go! There is nothing like a nice home-brewed beer. :)

SonofK3 -- you may disagree with the petition, but why would it be "stupid" for someone to support sensible gun safety regulation? if you're here for a conversation then engage in a logical one; otherwise, just fair warning that we don't feed trolls.

*For the record, I think that our State commemorated this holiday not to continue to promote slavery or whatever but to celebrate a period of Mississippi's history in which we stood up to the federal government...*

...for the **express purpose** of continuing slavery. It's right there in the <a href="http://sunsite.utk.edu/civil-war/reason…">articles of secession</a>.

Let's be clear... there's no Constitutional right to secession, and the South very pointedly avoided saying they had a *natural right* to rebellion, because they knew how ridiculous it would be to assert that they had the God-Given Right to Be Free... for the express purpose of keeping other people as slaves.

So, Mississippi "stood up to the Federal Government" in order to continue slavery. If the State of Mississippi honors Robert E. Lee for "standing up" to the Federal government, as you say, then we're honoring him specifically because he was fighting and killing the Feds *in order to continue the institution of slavery*.

I therefore humbly submit that it's an extraordinarily crappy reason for a holiday.

Meanwhile, what planet are you from that causes you to believe that the Second Amendment gives you a right to armed insurrection? It gives you no such right. The Constitution doesn't have a succession clause (or amendment) and it doesn't have an insurrection clause (or amendment).

The argument that the Second Amendment somehow gives you the right to armed rebellion seems to have only one real benefit -- it's an interesting way to try and get the government to "well-regulate" your gun ownership a bit more closely. Presumably that isn't the goal.

To bring us back to the topic, the Constitution **does** have a 14th Amendment -- and U.S. Code has a Civil Rights Act of 1964 -- both of which were, in part, products of the folks discussed up-thread (Lincoln and King) who are more worthy of a state-sanctioned holiday than is the good, ol' General Lee*.

(*I think of the Duke boys every time I type that name.)

There are programs out there for donated helmets through AAA, Boys and Girls Clubs, etc. (That's a basic Google search.) Coxwell and Associates says they handle bicycle accidents on Google; maybe they'll donate some helmets. :)

This shouldn't be too tough to figure out.

@richaoj When you inherit something, you then own it. From what I've read, Lee's father-in-law's wishes were to free his slaves upon his death unless it meant financial troubles for the household, in which case they could be held for 5 years; Lee apparently thought things were bad enough that he fought to keep them enslaved for the full term.

I've not researched the veracity of what I've read online in depth, but it's my understanding that Lee had ledgers in which he documented his slave transactions on behalf of the household, he was known to have placed bounties on runaway slaves and he clearly lived, with his wife, in a household where slaves worked.

We do know from even the quotes above that he felt the "discipline" slaves endured would improve their race (not to the equal of whites, of course), and some accounts suggest he meted out that discipline with the lash to whose-ever those slaves were who served in his household...

Also, Donna will speak for herself above, but I don't think she was personally calling you a racist. Hers was a general call to arms to people who don't think we should hold up the old icons of the South simply because they've been held up in the past.

I can see that you're a reasonable person looking to discuss this and I'm enjoying the discussion with you.

As for Robert E. Lee day, I firmly believe we have to do more than wait and pray, as Lee himself might recommend -- I think education into the true nature of the man and his accomplishments might change the nature of the holiday sooner. After this thread I'm very interested in learning more about what Mississippi teaches about Robert E. Lee... and how accurate it really is. There's a few generations worth of fiction about the Lost Cause that is clearly still being unravelled and it would be interested to hear what the schools have to say, both public and private, about this over-idealized individual.