As for doing research, LadiesFirst, I've done mine, and I do it every day. What we find is that when a shill for a candidate comes on here, they won't listen anyway. If you're serious about these issues, you'll go read up for yourself. If you're not, you won't believe anyway. And neither matters much to me. You'll do what you want. I'm trying to have a serious conversation; I invite you to join us.
*It's obvious the frustration that was caused for some here with Frank Melton, because that alone crippled the health of this conversation.*
No, LadiesFirst, this isn't just about Frank Melton: He is a just a good analogy for a problem that occurs across the country, especially by politicians looking to score cheap points/votes. But like Melton, though, Quinn is setting herself up for failure by making proclamations that imply that the mayor has a whole lot to do with the murder rate. (It has seen highs and lows on Johnson's watch alone over the years.) Beyond the offensiveness of implying that an incumbent doesn't care enough about people being murdered, it is not a smart political move to hang your hat on promises that indicate that you think you can lower the murder rate by making more noise about murders, especially considering that this is the precise crime that politicians probably have the least control over.
Not to mention, if you pay attention to the crime literature/research, you will see that the sensationalism of violent crime, including by elected officials, can make it more attractive to many people who are risk of committing of -- those mired in hopelessness who want attention. Put another way, if you can get your face on the nightly news, it might be something you consider.
That's why this is much bigger conversation about the various tentacles around crime -- and we should all ask for ideas about what we can all do about changing the conditions that create criminals, as well as limiting their access to the tools of violent crime. Sure, more good police officers are a good thing -- and provides deterrent for some types of crime, but not usually murder, sadly. (See the domestic/drug-war point again.)
What happens in Jackson (and many places), though, is that people want to fingerpoint at elected officials and police officers while not doing enough of their part (including to decide to pay for education) during non-election times.
One of my first signs that Melton was a charlatan were his empty promises and uninformed rhetoric about violent crime. It is a huge red flag when any candidate plays that game.
Also, for the record, Darryl talks about "culture" in a very different way than I (and Tyler) do. I'll address that later as well.
Meantime, I urge everyone to read my "Why They Kill" story linked above again, as well as look through our GOOD Ideas issue on crime: http://www.jfp.ms/crime
Right, Ronni. Her very intelligent comments then are why I think she should not stoop to cheap rhetoric on crime now.
I have some other comments for this thread, all, but no time at the moment. I do appreciate that it is turning into a smarter dialogue over all than it was initially. Any time we can get past campaign rhetoric is a step toward actually improving our city.
Nice post, Tyler. None of us say that Jackson has no crime, and none of us downplay the actual murders (including the current mayor). It's not fair or accurate to attribute that to anyone. I also doubt that it is very smart politics. It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses that tactic. It worked for Melton, sure, but after that fiasco, the city is a bit more wary of crime sensationalism disguised as a plan. The politicians who try it look out of touch quickly.
Ah, so to change the subject from Ms. Quinn's implication that the mayor doesn't care enough about murders with the suggestion that I may be getting "complacent" about violent crime. Righhht.
We did an entire issue recently on fighting crime you should flip through: [jfp.ms/crime][1]
I wrote the lead story of the package (and several others): [Why They Kill.][2] One thing the article addresses is that crime sensationalism never solves crime--and can, in fact, make it worse.
As for most of our murders being drug-trade-related or domestic/family, I challenge you to prove me wrong.
In your post above, you said that the current mayor "submits nothing can be done." That, on its face, if false and adds nothing to this discussion. In his telephone town-hall meeting (which our political blogger has criticized in a separate post), the mayor addressed the serious problem of felons with guns. Many of our violent crimes are, indeed, committed by felons (often for drug-related violence) who do not stay in prison and then come back out and get a weapon and commit another crime.
A mayor, or even a police department, cannot keep a violent felon in prison. They can apprehend them (which our city shines at and has for years), and then they go into the judicial system -- which is a mess in Hinds County, as you may or may not know.
Regardless of what any candidate tells you, a mayor plays a limited role in fighting/stopping crime -- although certain research-based initiatives can help. Any mayor who promises the farm in stopping the kinds of crimes we're talking about will probably have about the same success as Mayor Melton. Of course, one can make a strong argument that he was responsible for a rise in violent crimes in various ways, but that's another subject for another time.
Serious mayoral candidates cannot, and should not, over-promise on crime. One of the candidates last time, John Horhn, was very impressive on this front. He did not sensationalize crime, he didn't over-emphasize the role of the police or city government in stopping it, and he was well-versed in actual prevention strategies (which have more to do with jobs and education and economic development). The current mayor is strong on these points as well; thus, the way to beat him is to be *smarter* on these issues and not say things we'd expect out of someone like Melton.
You can think it's offensive all you want, but Melton took crime sensationalism to a new level in local politics. What is offensive to me is any implication that the current mayor, or any other candidate, does not "value the impact of the 66 lives lost." It is not cool and it's not a sign of leadership to campaign on the lives of murder victims, implying that other candidates don't care about them.
I'm not the only person in this city right now who is sensitive to the way candidates use crime as a political tool. It is good and cool to talk specifically about ways you can either change the conditions that lead to crime, or do something specific to improve the police department -- but acting like it's any mayor's fault that we had 66 murders instead of 54 is an insult to all of our intelligence and is a cheap shot—and, yes, something Frank Melton did over and over again.
I expect better out of Ms. Quinn. And there is nothing cheap about having higher expectations for a potential leader than resorting to mindless crime sensationalism.
*It's with a heavy heart that I ask your prayers for the White Family today. Hal White, part owner of the iconic Hal and Mal's, has died. Hal and his brother Malcolm opened the establishment 28 years ago. It's a staple in Downtown Jackson. Hal will be greatly missed. He is survived by his wife Ann and their three children.*
Malcolm White, the brother of Hal White, just posted this on his Facebook page:
Today, our beloved husband, father, grandfather, brother and friend to all, Hal White passed away due to complications associated with an anuerism. In a world of ordinary, Hal chose to be extraordinary. In a world of indifference, Hal chose to make a difference. In a world of "I can't", Hal said "I will!" We may never know the quantity or extent of the lives that Hal touched, but his reach was far and wide .... to know him was to love him! While Hal has left us physically, his spirit will live on in his wife Ann, his children, his grandchildren, his brothers, his many friends and his beloved Hal & Mal's. Rest in peace, Hal, we're all better people from having known you. And by the way .... "go dawgs!" Visitation will take place on Monday, April 1 from 9:00 until 10:45 am at St. Richards Catholic Church. The Mass of Resurrection will take place at 11:00 The Wake celebrating the life of Hal will take place Monday night at Hal & Mal's from 6:00 until 9:30.
donnaladd says...
As for doing research, LadiesFirst, I've done mine, and I do it every day. What we find is that when a shill for a candidate comes on here, they won't listen anyway. If you're serious about these issues, you'll go read up for yourself. If you're not, you won't believe anyway. And neither matters much to me. You'll do what you want. I'm trying to have a serious conversation; I invite you to join us.
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 29 March 2013, 1:30 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
*It's obvious the frustration that was caused for some here with Frank Melton, because that alone crippled the health of this conversation.*
No, LadiesFirst, this isn't just about Frank Melton: He is a just a good analogy for a problem that occurs across the country, especially by politicians looking to score cheap points/votes. But like Melton, though, Quinn is setting herself up for failure by making proclamations that imply that the mayor has a whole lot to do with the murder rate. (It has seen highs and lows on Johnson's watch alone over the years.) Beyond the offensiveness of implying that an incumbent doesn't care enough about people being murdered, it is not a smart political move to hang your hat on promises that indicate that you think you can lower the murder rate by making more noise about murders, especially considering that this is the precise crime that politicians probably have the least control over.
Not to mention, if you pay attention to the crime literature/research, you will see that the sensationalism of violent crime, including by elected officials, can make it more attractive to many people who are risk of committing of -- those mired in hopelessness who want attention. Put another way, if you can get your face on the nightly news, it might be something you consider.
That's why this is much bigger conversation about the various tentacles around crime -- and we should all ask for ideas about what we can all do about changing the conditions that create criminals, as well as limiting their access to the tools of violent crime. Sure, more good police officers are a good thing -- and provides deterrent for some types of crime, but not usually murder, sadly. (See the domestic/drug-war point again.)
What happens in Jackson (and many places), though, is that people want to fingerpoint at elected officials and police officers while not doing enough of their part (including to decide to pay for education) during non-election times.
One of my first signs that Melton was a charlatan were his empty promises and uninformed rhetoric about violent crime. It is a huge red flag when any candidate plays that game.
More later ...
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 29 March 2013, 1:28 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Also, for the record, Darryl talks about "culture" in a very different way than I (and Tyler) do. I'll address that later as well.
Meantime, I urge everyone to read my "Why They Kill" story linked above again, as well as look through our GOOD Ideas issue on crime: http://www.jfp.ms/crime
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 29 March 2013, 10:48 a.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Right, Ronni. Her very intelligent comments then are why I think she should not stoop to cheap rhetoric on crime now.
I have some other comments for this thread, all, but no time at the moment. I do appreciate that it is turning into a smarter dialogue over all than it was initially. Any time we can get past campaign rhetoric is a step toward actually improving our city.
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 29 March 2013, 10:46 a.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Nice post, Tyler. None of us say that Jackson has no crime, and none of us downplay the actual murders (including the current mayor). It's not fair or accurate to attribute that to anyone. I also doubt that it is very smart politics. It's hard to take anyone seriously who uses that tactic. It worked for Melton, sure, but after that fiasco, the city is a bit more wary of crime sensationalism disguised as a plan. The politicians who try it look out of touch quickly.
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 28 March 2013, 6 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Ah, so to change the subject from Ms. Quinn's implication that the mayor doesn't care enough about murders with the suggestion that I may be getting "complacent" about violent crime. Righhht.
We did an entire issue recently on fighting crime you should flip through:
[jfp.ms/crime][1]
I wrote the lead story of the package (and several others): [Why They Kill.][2] One thing the article addresses is that crime sensationalism never solves crime--and can, in fact, make it worse.
As for most of our murders being drug-trade-related or domestic/family, I challenge you to prove me wrong.
In your post above, you said that the current mayor "submits nothing can be done." That, on its face, if false and adds nothing to this discussion. In his telephone town-hall meeting (which our political blogger has criticized in a separate post), the mayor addressed the serious problem of felons with guns. Many of our violent crimes are, indeed, committed by felons (often for drug-related violence) who do not stay in prison and then come back out and get a weapon and commit another crime.
A mayor, or even a police department, cannot keep a violent felon in prison. They can apprehend them (which our city shines at and has for years), and then they go into the judicial system --
which is a mess in Hinds County, as you may or may not know.
Regardless of what any candidate tells you, a mayor plays a limited role in fighting/stopping crime -- although certain research-based initiatives can help. Any mayor who promises the farm in stopping the kinds of crimes we're talking about will probably have about the same success as Mayor Melton. Of course, one can make a strong argument that he was responsible for a rise in violent crimes in various ways, but that's another subject for another time.
Serious mayoral candidates cannot, and should not, over-promise on crime. One of the candidates last time, John Horhn, was very impressive on this front. He did not sensationalize crime, he didn't over-emphasize the role of the police or city government in stopping it, and he was well-versed in actual prevention strategies (which have more to do with jobs and education and economic development). The current mayor is strong on these points as well; thus, the way to beat him is to be *smarter* on these issues and not say things we'd expect out of someone like Melton.
[1]: http://www.jfp.ms/crime
[2]: http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/20…
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 28 March 2013, 5:50 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
You can think it's offensive all you want, but Melton took crime sensationalism to a new level in local politics. What is offensive to me is any implication that the current mayor, or any other candidate, does not "value the impact of the 66 lives lost." It is not cool and it's not a sign of leadership to campaign on the lives of murder victims, implying that other candidates don't care about them.
I'm not the only person in this city right now who is sensitive to the way candidates use crime as a political tool. It is good and cool to talk specifically about ways you can either change the conditions that lead to crime, or do something specific to improve the police department -- but acting like it's any mayor's fault that we had 66 murders instead of 54 is an insult to all of our intelligence and is a cheap shot—and, yes, something Frank Melton did over and over again.
I expect better out of Ms. Quinn. And there is nothing cheap about having higher expectations for a potential leader than resorting to mindless crime sensationalism.
On Quinn Campaign Fires Back On New Crime Stats
Posted 28 March 2013, 4:39 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Mayor Harvey Johnson's statement:
*It's with a heavy heart that I ask your prayers for the White Family today.
Hal White, part owner of the iconic Hal and Mal's, has died.
Hal and his brother Malcolm opened the establishment 28 years ago. It's a staple in Downtown Jackson. Hal will be greatly missed.
He is survived by his wife Ann and their three children.*
On Jackson Fixture Hal White Passes Away at 64
Posted 28 March 2013, 4:03 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
More on Hal:
http://www.jacksonfreepress.com/news/20…
On Jackson Fixture Hal White Passes Away at 64
Posted 28 March 2013, 3:45 p.m. Suggest removal
donnaladd says...
Malcolm White, the brother of Hal White, just posted this on his Facebook page:
Today, our beloved husband, father, grandfather, brother and friend to all, Hal White passed away due to complications associated with an anuerism. In a world of ordinary, Hal chose to be extraordinary. In a world of indifference, Hal chose to make a difference. In a world of "I can't", Hal said "I will!" We may never know the quantity or extent of the lives that Hal touched, but his reach was far and wide .... to know him was to love him! While Hal has left us physically, his spirit will live on in his wife Ann, his children, his grandchildren, his brothers, his many friends and his beloved Hal & Mal's. Rest in peace, Hal, we're all better people from having known you. And by the way .... "go dawgs!" Visitation will take place on Monday, April 1 from 9:00 until 10:45 am at St. Richards Catholic Church. The Mass of Resurrection will take place at 11:00 The Wake celebrating the life of Hal will take place Monday night at Hal & Mal's from 6:00 until 9:30.
On Jackson Fixture Hal White Passes Away at 64
Posted 28 March 2013, 3:32 p.m. Suggest removal